change of plans

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Re: change of plans

Post by Scott on Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:58 pm

Hey Bella, glad to see your getting ready to set up a salty.

One question: why do you need a chiller?
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Re: change of plans

Post by briansbelle on Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:40 am

i am not sure lol, read that they are a good thing to have b/c of heat issues, and with my tank being an all in one tank with a closed lid i figured that the chiller would be my best bet.

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Re: change of plans

Post by Scott on Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:04 am

If you keep reading, you are going to find that there are a lot of THINGS that you NEED to keep a salt tank. In reality, there are very few. I realize you are moving and arn't going to set up you tank for salt right now, but...

Set up you tank. bare bottom, filter, lights, heater, etc... use regular tap water. Set your heater to the desired temp. (mine is at 78) let it run for a week or so and see if you need a chiller.

If one listes hard enough, they will hear about all of the pieces of equipment needed to keep a salt water tank. It becomes more expensive and complicated and time consuming than it needs to be. KISS is the best answer to all of the salt water problems. Keep It Simple Stupid.

In the salt water world, KISS equates to Chemisrty, Salinity and Temp. 0 ammonia, 0 Nitrite, >40 Nitrate. Salinity between 1.020 and 1.024. Temp depends on the types of creatures you are keeping. 75-80 is normal.

Chillers are normally used in areas where a tank is exposed to sunlight, very hot climates, direct exposure to a heating vent or where you have thousands of dollars tied up in coral and fish and just want to make sure they don't boil over. For a 28g all in one, I really dont think you are going to need one. Save the money from the chiller and buy more fish.

Scott
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Re: change of plans

Post by briansbelle on Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:01 am

thanks scott,
i have the chiller already but have decided i might just go ahead and sell it. i bought it used, so its no problem to sell it, might even make a little profit from it. Wink

i am not sure where we are moving to, we have discussed texas and i know it gets very hot there in the summer.

i will prob just sell the chiller and use the money to buy an ATO and an RO unit. those 2 things i will need.

thanks again
belle

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Re: change of plans

Post by football mom on Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:17 pm

Belle,
Where in Tx are you thinking about moving to. Hope it's close by me!
There's a great cichlid club based out of San Antonio...
And Rare Dave's is there, too!
J

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Re: change of plans

Post by Scott on Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:18 pm

We just bought a RO unit a few months back. It is from Coralife and work great. the best part about it, it is inexpensive. it is the Coralife Pur Flow II, 4 stage unit with an additional 5 micron prefilter. It is rated at 50gpd.

As for the ATO, I am kind of against some of the automation equipment. I think they take the hobby out of the hobby. I like to get in there and be a part of the life of my fish and it doesn't take much time or energy to do the water tests and add water when needed.

As for your sump/refug, you said 10g? Is that a 10g tank or 10g of water. Your cube is acrylic and can be drilled for overflow. That is the only way to go. Minimal siphoning in the event of a power outage. I am inherting a 75g glass tank not drilled for overflow and am not sure I want to try and drill it. So, I will not be setting up a sump this time. Sad
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Re: change of plans

Post by Emma on Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:27 pm

Thats right your not going to be drilling holes in MY 75 that you are borrowing! hot
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Re: change of plans

Post by briansbelle on Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:03 pm

my nano cube is glass. and 10 gallon tank, not 10 gallons of water. i dont want to drill the tank at all, not a fan of drilled tanks Wink

i think i will hold off on the ATO unit for now and just get an RO unit.

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Re: change of plans

Post by football mom on Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:04 pm

Hey, Scott, I just read your post about your Eclipse 12 SW. That's the same tank I'm going to be setting up as my next project. Fish only, with maybe some low light invertebrates.
What do you have in yours? And can you post a picture? I can't decide on what color background it should have.
Thanks, looking forward to seeing yours to give me ideas how to do mine.
J

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Re: change of plans

Post by Emma on Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:48 pm

Here are two pictures of Scott's SW tank... and personally I'm a fan of black backgrounds.



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Re: change of plans

Post by addicted2cichlid on Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:15 pm

Scott wrote:If you keep reading, you are going to find that there are a lot of THINGS that you NEED to keep a salt tank. In reality, there are very few. I realize you are moving and arn't going to set up you tank for salt right now, but...

Set up you tank. bare bottom, filter, lights, heater, etc... use regular tap water. Set your heater to the desired temp. (mine is at 78) let it run for a week or so and see if you need a chiller.

If one listes hard enough, they will hear about all of the pieces of equipment needed to keep a salt water tank. It becomes more expensive and complicated and time consuming than it needs to be. KISS is the best answer to all of the salt water problems. Keep It Simple Stupid.

In the salt water world, KISS equates to Chemisrty, Salinity and Temp. 0 ammonia, 0 Nitrite, >40 Nitrate. Salinity between 1.020 and 1.024. Temp depends on the types of creatures you are keeping. 75-80 is normal.

Chillers are normally used in areas where a tank is exposed to sunlight, very hot climates, direct exposure to a heating vent or where you have thousands of dollars tied up in coral and fish and just want to make sure they don't boil over. For a 28g all in one, I really dont think you are going to need one. Save the money from the chiller and buy more fish.

Scott



i completely DISAGREE with ^

first off, DON'T USE TAP WATER! tap water contains phosphate (no matter how minuscule) and phosphate will just bring on algae, especially in a new salt water aquarium. tap water also contains trace amounts of metals/heavy metals that not all dechlorinators will zap all of. using tap water is about the worst advice to give someone starting a new marine aquarium.

also, i would imagine belle is setting this up as a "show tank", why would u suggest bare bottom, i understand that it is easier to keep clean but she isnt starting a propagation tank. for a 28g nano cube u only need 20-30lbs of sand. i would use live sand and get a jump on ur esablishment. Carib Sea's "Fiji Pink" is my fave.

40ppm nitrate?! Scott this isn't an attack on u but what are you talking about? 1/2 my corals would jump out of the tank if i let nitrates get to 40ppm. for a reef u want under 5 ppm, i wouldn't be content until nitrate is untestable. not to mention the long term effect it would have on angels/tangs/anthias and a whole bunch of other salty creatures. Even in a hardier fish only tank i would never let nitrates get over 20ppm.

ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and salinity are not the only things to keep in check. once again scott this isnt an attack on you, but that is some very poor advice.
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Re: change of plans

Post by Aura on Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:25 pm

Chris, I think Scott was talking about bare bottom and tap water just as a temporary setup for Belle to determine if she would really need a chiller or not, with the lights, filter, heater, etc. running -- without going all out with sand and proper water.
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Re: change of plans

Post by Rift_Lakes_Rule on Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:56 am

addicted2cichlid wrote:
i completely DISAGREE with ^

first off, DON'T USE TAP WATER! tap water contains phosphate (no matter how minuscule) and phosphate will just bring on algae, especially in a new salt water aquarium. tap water also contains trace amounts of metals/heavy metals that not all dechlorinators will zap all of. using tap water is about the worst advice to give someone starting a new marine aquarium.

also, i would imagine belle is setting this up as a "show tank", why would u suggest bare bottom, i understand that it is easier to keep clean but she isnt starting a propagation tank. for a 28g nano cube u only need 20-30lbs of sand. i would use live sand and get a jump on ur esablishment. Carib Sea's "Fiji Pink" is my fave.

40ppm nitrate?! Scott this isn't an attack on u but what are you talking about? 1/2 my corals would jump out of the tank if i let nitrates get to 40ppm. for a reef u want under 5 ppm, i wouldn't be content until nitrate is untestable. not to mention the long term effect it would have on angels/tangs/anthias and a whole bunch of other salty creatures. Even in a hardier fish only tank i would never let nitrates get over 20ppm.

ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and salinity are not the only things to keep in check. once again scott this isnt an attack on you, but that is some very poor advice.



Chris, you do realize that we are trying to establish a friendly forum here, one that has a family feel to it. I think you need to try to comprehend other member's posts before you attack. The way I read it, he suggested for her to set it up basicly as a test to see if she would need a chiller. You can sit there and say "this isn't an attack on you" all you want to but when you word things the way that you did it DEFINITELY reads as an attack. This is the 2nd aggressive post that I've seen you make towards another member, you know the rules of baseball? We want this forum to be friendly and informative, there are ways to disagree with information that has been posted and the way you did it isn't acceptable in my book. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: change of plans

Post by Rift_Lakes_Rule on Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:06 am

Scott, sorry about all that. Please check your pm's Wink

Belle, sorry your thread got jacked up a bit... hopefully it will continue to be informative and helpful to you as well as being respectful to other members.

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Re: change of plans

Post by Scott on Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:35 pm

football mom wrote:Hey, Scott, I just read your post about your Eclipse 12 SW. That's the same tank I'm going to be setting up as my next project. Fish only, with maybe some low light invertebrates.
What do you have in yours? And can you post a picture? I can't decide on what color background it should have.
Thanks, looking forward to seeing yours to give me ideas how to do mine.
J

Knowing that I was going to be moving to a bigger tank, 75g, I havent done a lot with the Eclipse lately. It has been in a holding pattern jusst to keep what I have. There are plenty of fish, inverts and corals I want but I didn't feel comfortable puting some of them in such a small tank. I also didn't have the resources and supplies to properly maintain an exotic tank. Meaning, if the tank started to crash, I had limited options to save anything. I also haven't had the money to do what I really wanted with it. STD or sudden tank death can and does happen regardless of how strick you are with water chemistry. It has never happened to me though. In a small tank, things change faster than in a big tank, so one needs to be a bit more carefull. I have seen some really amazing 12g tanks though. That being said...

I currently have 1 maroon clown, 1 blue devil, 1 emerald crab, 4 peppermint shrimp, 2 nassarius snails, 1 turbo snail and a few hermits. The live rock in the tank is some cheaper crap that came with a lot of copods but not a lot of color. They have just started to come on here as of late. Coraline algea has started to grow on the glass and I have tried to keep it off of the front only. I have 10 pounds or so of fine crushed coral "live" sand.

I think Emma posted her favorite background color and I agree with her. Black is the way to go. I had some blue film on it but It look weird to me so I flipped it over and went with the black side. On our 30g and 125g tanks, we painted the black on. I think it looks better than the plastic background film. One of the lfs has all of their tanks painted a light grey/blue. I kind of like it cause it makes the tank look bright but they are also set up for sale purposes, not home display.

Good luck with your new tank. sorry that my photos aren't a great help to ya but hopefully if nothing else, you can see what not to do. LOL

Scott
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Re: change of plans

Post by Scott on Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:38 pm

Something I just remembered, the actinic bulb that came with my tank went out a while back. I gave up looking for one and used the regular buld from another eclipse. It may be something to find now before you need one. And in mine, the lack of actinic light kept me from jumping into corals and what not.

Scott
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Re: change of plans

Post by football mom on Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:53 pm

Thanks for the advice and pictures. I'll keep y'all posted.

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Re: change of plans

Post by addicted2cichlid on Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:40 pm

take it as u will, i wasnt trying to be unfriendly at all.

its the internet, ur reading my thoughts, so u dont know what tone/demeanor i am using.

temperature testing with tap water will be different then temperature testing with salt water.... because FRESH WATER HOLDS TEMP BETTER THAN SALT WATER.

and to test to see if she needs a chiller or not she is going to have to have everything running while she does it so she can see how much the flow and circulation through pumps swing the temp.

i stand by my post.


Last edited by addicted2cichlid on Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: change of plans

Post by Rift_Lakes_Rule on Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:02 pm

addicted2cichlid wrote:take it as u will, i wasnt trying to be unfriendly at all.

its the internet, ur reading my thoughts, so u dont know what tone/demeanor i am using.

i stand by my post.


And since this is the internet do us a favor, ask yourself "if someone responded to me like this, would I be offended?" If so, re-word it to make it come off less aggressive. Like I said on another occasion, the use of smiley's help also. There are ways to carry on a conversation in a not so aggressive manner.

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Re: change of plans

Post by Emma on Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:32 pm

addicted2cichlid wrote:FRESH WATER HOLDS TEMP BETTER THAN SALT WATER.

So by this method, if the fresh water is the right temperature without the chiller you would not need the chiller with the salt water. Neutral
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Re: change of plans

Post by briansbelle on Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:41 pm

i have decided i am going to sell the chiller, hopefully i can atleast get what i paid for it.

i am going to use that money to buy an RO unit and some other misc stuff i need, like a test kit and things like that.

thanks again for all the help Wink

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Re: change of plans

Post by addicted2cichlid on Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:13 pm

thumbs up....
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Re: change of plans

Post by addicted2cichlid on Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:35 pm

Emma wrote:
addicted2cichlid wrote:FRESH WATER HOLDS TEMP BETTER THAN SALT WATER.

So by this method, if the fresh water is the right temperature without the chiller you would not need the chiller with the salt water. Neutral

eh kinda, depending on water volume, surface-area, circulation, acrylic or glass, and lighting, each tank is going to be different/individual... and the range between temp from fresh/salt would be a guess.

once again, i would use salt water so u know exactly where your starting at.
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Re: change of plans

Post by Scott on Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:39 pm

Hey Belle- I never intended to state for fact that you would never need a chiller. My point was for you to find out for yourself if you needed that type of equipment.

Minus all the Whoa,whoa,whoas, the thread "be aware of advice from LFS' is spot on. That is why as a hoddiest, I asked you why you thought you needed a chiller. LFS will sell you a product if you ask for it cause they are in the business of making money, not keeping you fish alive and money in your bank. There is a general rule of thumb to keep nitrates below 40. How far below 40 is up to you, your wallet and your time. For a FO tank, it doesn't matter. If you have tank jumping corals, you may need to keep it below .5 as stated earlier. Or you could put a lid on you tank to keep those little jumpers in. Smile
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Re: change of plans

Post by Scott on Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:40 pm

So then your advice was poor?? Smile
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Re: change of plans

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