Hybrid Issues

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Hybrid Issues

Post by Micheal on Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:55 am

Hybridization
Is it good, is it bad? Here’s what you need to know.

This is a very touchy subject in most aquaria circles. Many hobbyists believe that under no circumstances should fish be allowed to hybridize. I’m going to try to cover just the facts, or at least what I feel are the important facts on this topic.

Is it good, or is it bad?

The truth of the matter is that it’s up to the individual hobbyist to answer this. The only real way hybridizing is bad is if you sell/trade the hybrids without informing the buyer. If you want to experiment at home, and keep the offspring responsibly then there really isn’t anything wrong with it. All of the special breeds of dogs we have today came from hybridizing the breeds, who knows… you could come up with the most beautiful fish on the planet. If you are interested in breeding fish to sell or trade, hybrids should be avoided. If you are selling young fry you could very easily get a hybrid fry mixed in with your pure bred fry. I would assume also that if word got out you have bred hybrids nobody will trust your fish anyway. Therefore if you are just wanting to experiment and the offspring won’t be leaving your tanks it’s ok, if you are planning on breeding to sell/trade you should avoid hybrids at all cost.

How do I avoid hybrids?

Here are my recommendations for avoiding hybrids in Mbuna, these may apply to other types of fish as well but since these have actually worked for me with Mbuna that’s the only claim I’ll make.

1)Always get species from separate genus’. Ex. Melanochromis Johanni = Melanochromis is the genus, Johanni is the species. Here’s an example of a mixture of genus’ for a set up.
Melanochromis johanni
Cynotilapia afra
Metriaclima greshakei
This was an actual set up that I had for a few years, the females were only interested in the males of their species. I never had any hybridization issues.

2)Avoid species that directly resemble each other. Even after you have picked separate genus, you could still have issues. If you get species with all vertical barring, make sure there are definite differences in the color and appearance of the species. In the above example, the Melanochromis has horizontal barring, the Cynotilapia and Metriaclima both have vertical barring however the colors are different. They Cyno looked light blue w/dark blue bars, when in full dress the male looked almost brilliant white with very dark barring, almost black. The Metriaclima however was a solid “purplish” color with a orange dorsal and vertical barring that only showed in full dress. As you can see, there is a definite difference in the appearance even tho both have vertical barring. Here’s an example of a mix that I wouldn’t suggest and why. Melanochromis Johanni/Pseudotropheus Saulosi, although the males have a mix of horizontal barring and vertical barring both females are yellow and resemble each other pretty closely. I realize the body shape is a little different but not enough to keep the males from harassing every yellow fish in the tank. Even if the females refused to spawn with the opposite male, the male would constantly harass her because in his eyes she would be close enough. If one male was hyper dominant over the male of the other species the chances of hybridizing would go up considerably as the female will eventually give in because her “need” to spawn would eventually be so great.

If you are interested in avoiding hybrids, these 2 suggestions and some common sense should help you achieve this. The females don’t just go by the “looks” of the male when deciding to spawn. Each species has it’s own scent, so when the male releases his milt the female can actually identify wether or not it’s a male of her species. You shouldn’t rely on this solely because if there isn’t a spawning male of her species, a female will settle for another male because her natural need to spawn would eventually take over. Just because you have a male in the tank doesn’t mean it will spawn, almost all of the time it will but if the alpha male in the tank is kicking his butt everytime he tries to attract a female he may just give up.

If you are interested in breeding hybrids, have fun but be responsible.

For those that are wondering, I’m a Purist and will never hybridize fish. I had to try to be unbiased when writing this for the good of the hobby. I honestly believe that what I’ve written is the “truth” rather than personal opinion and each hobbyist should be able to decide for themselves just like us Purist’s have.

Article written by and accredited to:

Rift_Lakes_Rule
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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by buntbarsch on Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:05 pm

Whow, 163 views and not one reply????????????

Are you all scared of offering your opinion on Michaels excellent article? C'mon, chime in here. Michael deserves better then that.

My opinion is quite simple: I like my hybrids fried with some salt, pepper, dill and butter. Maybe some salsa on the side. Anybody have a problem with that? Didn't think so.

But seriously, I totally agree with Michael on this issue to the point that just about all of my tanks are "species only" tanks. I won't even mix the same species if they come from different localities. I believe that it is our responsibility to keep the species pure in the hobby. Just try to find a wild Discus. It is just about impossible, or even worse, find a wild form of our guppy. You will have to do some serious searching I can assure you.
Here is somebody who is actually proud of himself to have "created" another OB Peacock. http://www.cichlid.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3496

But that is just my opinion and you might totally disagree with me. I know that people get into our hobby for very different reasons. One my best friends is one of the leading Guppy breeders in NA. Genetics are his interest and he is doing it for the last 35 years. Now you can imagine the fun we have after a few beer.


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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by Rift_Lakes_Rule on Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:16 pm

Thanks for the support Klaus, I'm glad I'm not the only purist left in the hobby. Hybrids do make for some great photo opportunities if your quick enough and your timing is right but I haven't been quick enough to flush the toilet, get the hybrid in focus while it's battling the currents and get the shot off before "Wooooossssshhhh", but for those that can time it just right it does make for an excellent photo...

lol!

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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by Drake-tripod on Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:09 pm

well since i helped him put this article up i just left it be but really i wish i had hybrids big enough to try and eat wonder what a tank raised fish like that would taste like and hey maybe bust out my ice fishing pole and go fishing Very Happy
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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by Rift_Lakes_Rule on Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:02 pm

Drake-tripod wrote:well since i helped him put this article up i just left it be

Question Question Question

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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by Micheal on Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:22 pm

The other Mike gets all the credit for this article. It is the basis behind what we stand for on this site though.
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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by Drake-tripod on Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:49 pm

wink
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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by bulldogg7 on Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:54 pm

buntbarsch wrote:
Here is somebody who is actually proud of himself to have "created" another OB Peacock. http://www.cichlid.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3496

Well hello all. I just came to look about at what I created, what I call a KOIchlid, while in search of a better looking cichlid and in the process mixed a couple of my faves, the what was once called a Jacobs Ferbergi Male, and a female Peacock, (species witheld), and got Blotch characteristics, then raised a female of that mix, inbred with the Jacobs father, and raised the best male from that union, bred it with another species of Peacock and I think,, that even if I am so base as to think so,,,that it is the most beautiful breed of cichlid I have seen or bred. . .
I will be selling these, and everyone will know the whole story on my fish, no worries.

I coulda saved this guy a lot of time

Maybe I can think up a cool name and get rich too cheers

BTW JK
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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by Rift_Lakes_Rule on Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:05 pm

mike

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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by buntbarsch on Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:20 pm

bulldogg7 wrote:Maybe I can think up a cool name and get rich too cheers
Bud, love your photography skills but .........

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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by vman on Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:40 am

I've had my problems with the mass sales of hybrids . I've had many hybrids of my own but have yet to sell any. Some are beautiful but I still disagree with the sale of them . This is 1 (blue dolphin X fryeri, elec blue)that I kept to see what it would look like. It will never be sold . nono
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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by Rift_Lakes_Rule on Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:21 am

mike

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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by theswede on Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:03 pm

Stunning hybrid! Love the red on the fin. Hard to kill a fish like that. Much better to enjoy it yourself.
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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by Rift_Lakes_Rule on Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:56 pm

mike

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Re: Hybrid Issues

Post by bulldogg7 on Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:38 pm

Just saw Mo's new banner on the C-F addie Laughing
run strawberry run!
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