Inbreeding

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Inbreeding Empty Inbreeding

Post by Aura on Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:32 pm

Does anyone know at what point spawning between brothers and sisters becomes a problem? For example, two of the Julies that I bought last summer formed a pair and produced babies and now a pair has formed from those and they have their own babies. I bought the original Julies from the same store, same tank, so they could very well be siblings too.

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Post by theswede on Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:58 pm

I think that we often exaggerate the risk for inbreeding slightly when it comes to cichlids from the Rift lakes. They are probably the cichlids in the world that are the most insensitive to inbreeding. E.g. there are some breeders that has been line breeding on the same bloodline for over 20 years without any problems. I know a couple of guys (through cichlid forums)over here that has done this with several species of Malawi cichlids without any problems.
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Post by BigFishMan25 on Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:20 pm

The only thing I can think of that would happen is loss of physical traits (coloration) and any possible health problems (bad organs). It would take a while before either of these were major problems. If your ever in question about the quality of the fry, then just introduce new blood into the tank. Also inbreeding really effects New World cichlids a lot more than africans as theswede said.

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Post by buntbarsch on Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:14 pm

theswede wrote:I think that we often exaggerate the risk for inbreeding slightly when it comes to cichlids from the Rift lakes. They are probably the cichlids in the world that are the most insensitive to inbreeding. E.g. there are some breeders that has been line breeding on the same bloodline for over 20 years without any problems. I know a couple of guys (through cichlid forums)over here that has done this with several species of Malawi cichlids without any problems.

I could not agree more.......... Very Happy

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Post by Aura on Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:16 pm

Okay, that's good to hear. I know I've read that it isn't a problem, but I was reading an excerpt from a book on Malawi cichlids and it mentioned the importance of not allowing inbreeding, that after "several" generations it would degrade the quality of the fish.

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Post by BigFishMan25 on Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:27 pm

Aura wrote:Okay, that's good to hear. I know I've read that it isn't a problem, but I was reading an excerpt from a book on Malawi cichlids and it mentioned the importance of not allowing inbreeding, that after "several" generations it would degrade the quality of the fish.

Yep this is true. Genetic codes start breaking down. Now if your fish have bad traits, for example Frontosa's with Y stripes. Thats when you don't want to sell the fry... unless the buyer has no problem with it. But you don't have Fronts so don't worry about it.

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Post by Aura on Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:39 pm

No Fronts, but those types of traits occur in the fish I keep as well. I know not to select fish with messed up barring, stripes, etc. to breed, but I was thinking more about deformities.

And I don't know what "several" means.
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Post by Drake-tripod on Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:40 pm

betty kulas and swede said waht you needed to know lol
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Post by theswede on Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:52 pm

Drake-tripod wrote:betty kulas and swede said waht you needed to know lol

Very Happy Who is kulas?
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Post by Drake-tripod on Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:53 pm

lol or klaus idk lol
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Post by BigFishMan25 on Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:55 pm

"Several" probably 3-4 or more in this case. I remember we did a lab with fruit flies and because they reproduce so quick you could see changes fairly quick. Fish would take a lot longer because their life span is a lot longer, and a generation for them takes longer to produce.

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Post by why_spyder on Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:17 pm

I've heard from a few people of going through 5-7 generations from the same stock without any problems. I also remember one of them saying they actually ran into more problems when they outcrossed two good lines together - I would imagine it had to do with subdominant traits coming out.

I don't worry about inbreeding personally - as long as I add the best looking and strongest in health back to the breeding group I don't foresee any problems.
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Post by buntbarsch on Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:32 pm

theswede wrote:Who is kulas?

Hey, he got ALL the letters right. Now we just have to teach him how to put them in the right order....... lol!

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Post by football mom on Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:55 pm

Klaus, those of us who have know Derek for a while remember "herny-isms'.
His spelling/typing has greatly improved over the last couple of years.
(D, you know we love you!)

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Post by vman on Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:52 am

I've kept several bloodlines going for 30+yrs with NO intentional inbreeding by having 3 or more strains from the same bloodline , introducing new blood into my lines & by line breeding ( father / daughter , mother / son ) ... I destroy all broods within broods then separate males from females .
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